Friday, January 20, 2017

ATP fixed easiest draw for nadal


How does Nadal always get the easiest draws, TIME AFTER TIME?
Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by ductrung3993, Oct 31, 2013.
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ductrung3993

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ductrung3993, Oct 31, 2013 

Someone please explain this for me.
 This happens way too often to be consider normal.
 Especially every time he "comes back". Not just easy draws, but all the other lucks too such as getting tired opponents. I though 2010 was enough of a fluke until this year happens.


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Chico

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Chico, Oct 31, 2013 

I don't understand it either. It is really ridiculous. Happens way too often to be a coincidence IMO.
 Not to mention huge amount of luck he had recently, on top of easy draws. The luck has to turn at some point.


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Clarky21

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Clarky21, Oct 31, 2013 

Explain to me how any of his recent draws have been easy? He had to play JJ in his second match in Paris, and got soaked by the draw in Shanghai and in Beijing. Cvac and Fed are the ones who routinely get cake draws, not Nadal.


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monfed

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monfed, Oct 31, 2013 

Yea , you would've thought USO 10 draw was a rare gift but the cakedraws for Ralph don't seem to have an upper limit. It's just too obvious.


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MonkeyBoy

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MonkeyBoy, Oct 31, 2013 

He had hard draws in RG/Wimb.


#5
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marc45

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marc45, Oct 31, 2013 

Toni is behind all of this..and the King of Spain..I can't believe the OP doesn't know this, it's been all over the news
 (Francisco Franco is still dead btw, if anybody is still wondering about that)
[​IMG]

Last edited: Oct 31, 2013

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cjs

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cjs, Oct 31, 2013 

Every draw looks easy when your No 1 and have a positive head-to-head record against all your opponents.
 This perception of "cake walk draws" (or more aptly hallucination) is simply a product of the paranoid minds of haters.


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RF20Lennon

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RF20Lennon, Oct 31, 2013 

Toni is the Vito Corleone of the ATP. :cool:


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Timbo's hopeless slice

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Timbo's hopeless slice, Oct 31, 2013 

Sometimes, rarely, when I'm feeling down, I come to this part of the forum..
 Whilst tragic, it always cheers me up.
 Why, you ask? Because it reminds me that, no matter how low I may feel, I will never be as stupid as the denizens of this awful place...


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tennisbuck

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tennisbuck, Oct 31, 2013 

Ya know there is a thread like the this for all of the "Big Four"... I think they have all gotten there share of streaks of good draws but I don't buy these conspiracy theories


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MichaelNadal

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MichaelNadal, Oct 31, 2013 

[​IMG]


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spinovic

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spinovic, Oct 31, 2013 



Timbo's hopeless slice said: ↑

Sometimes, rarely, when I'm feeling down, I come to this part of the forum..
 Whilst tragic, it always cheers me up.
 Why, you ask? Because it reminds me that, no matter how low I may feel, I will never be as stupid as the denizens of this awful place...

Good stuff Timbo...


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LazyNinja19

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LazyNinja19, Oct 31, 2013 

It's really funny how Nadal winning makes you haters soooo sad, that you have to come up with a new thread to cry, every time he wins!
 I can imagine people such as OP crying to their mommy "mommy, Rafa wins...he bad...he defeats my Lord Federer....he evil...me no like him, me want to cry". :lol: :lol:
 Haters gonna hate! 8)


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winstonplum

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winstonplum, Oct 31, 2013 



Timbo's hopeless slice said: ↑

Sometimes, rarely, when I'm feeling down, I come to this part of the forum..
 Whilst tragic, it always cheers me up.
 Why, you ask? Because it reminds me that, no matter how low I may feel, I will never be as stupid as the denizens of this awful place...

Frickin' classic.


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Backspin1183

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Backspin1183, Nov 1, 2013 

Nadal's "cup cake draws" usually have Federer or Djokovic. And we know how Nadal leads the H2H vs these two players.
 With the clay warrior having a positive H2H vs almost every player on the ATP Tour, every draw he gets can be easy.


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MichaelNadal

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MichaelNadal, Nov 1, 2013 

What's a hard draw for Rafa?


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Warmaster

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Warmaster, Nov 1, 2013 



MichaelNadal said: ↑

What's a hard draw for Rafa?

The Tower of Tandil in his current form!


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Nathaniel_Near

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Nathaniel_Near, Nov 1, 2013 



Warmaster said: ↑

The Tower of Tandil in his current form!

Oh man.

 Today is a great day of tennis.


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Magnus

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Magnus, Nov 1, 2013 

Rafita always gets joke draws, but its old news now. Its been happening since his debut pretty much.


#19
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Wim

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Wim, Nov 1, 2013 

Dont understand what you mean?
 In Shanghai he had a harder one.
 USO a bit more difficult than Djoker.


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JoshT

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JoshT, Nov 1, 2013 

"luck of the draw"???
 It's random, and there is no truth to any one player ALWAYS getting a better draw then the rest.
 The amount of times when Nadal was number 4 that he ended up on the same half as Djokovic should prove that.


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Backspin1183

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Backspin1183, Nov 1, 2013 



Magnus said: ↑

Rafita always gets joke draws, but its old news now. Its been happening since his debut pretty much.

almost all his draws included prime Djokovic or Roger Cabrito.


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monfed

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monfed, Nov 1, 2013 



Magnus said: ↑

Rafita always gets joke draws, but its old news now. Its been happening since his debut pretty much.

Tio Toni seems to have major pull, disturbing trend.


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monfed

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monfed, Nov 1, 2013 



RF20Lennon said: ↑

Toni is the Vito Corleone of the ATP. :cool:

You maybe onto something, slowdown of surfaces, cake draws. Hmm interesting.


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lunch

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lunch, Nov 1, 2013 

on this forum, the below would be considered a "fair" draw for nadal:
 R1: Janowicz
 R2: Isner
 R3: Federer
 R4: Tsonga
 Qtrs: Del Potro
 Semis: Murray
 Final: Djokovic
 in all seriousness, there are only a handful of players on tour who have a realistic shot of taking rafa out. just because he can steamroll 5 out of 7 guys in any given tournament doesn't mean that the draw is rigged. it just means that he's that much better than the field (including #6-10 in the world).
 the paragraph above also applies to djokovic.


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veroniquem

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veroniquem, Nov 1, 2013 

It's just because Murray is not playing. So of course whoever gets Delpo/Fed gets shafted, especially indoor. But there is another way to look at it: the Djoko side of the draw is getting a better prep for WTF than Rafa.


#26
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Starfury

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Starfury, Nov 1, 2013 



lunch said: ↑

in all seriousness, there are only a handful of players on tour who have a realistic shot of taking rafa out. just because he can steamroll 5 out of 7 guys in any given tournament doesn't mean that the draw is rigged. it just means that he's that much better than the field (including #6-10 in the world).

Strawman. It's simple to look at the draw and compare the other QF seeds.
 Djokovic half: Del Potro, Federer, Wawrinka
 Nadal half: Ferrer, Berdych, Gasquet
 Now who's going to argue that Nadal's didn't get the the weaker player for each of the three opponents?


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veroniquem

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veroniquem, Nov 1, 2013 



Starfury said: ↑

Strawman. It's simple to look at the draw and compare the other QF seeds.
 Djokovic half: Del Potro, Federer, Wawrinka
 Nadal half: Ferrer, Berdych, Gasquet
 Now who's going to argue that Nadal's didn't get the the weaker player for each of the three opponents?

It happens. It's happened to other players in other draws. C'est la vie!


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chicagodude

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chicagodude, Nov 1, 2013 



ductrung3993 said: ↑

Someone please explain this for me.
 This happens way too often to be consider normal.
 Especially every time he "comes back". Not just easy draws, but all the other lucks too such as getting tired opponents. I though 2010 was enough of a fluke until this year happens.

*sigh* here's my explanation: your dislike for Nadal is clouding your objectivity and makes you think he always gets easy draws and always gets lucky. And how is getting tired opponents (which is subjective, btw) lucky anyway?
 There are threads like this for each of the top players, and frankly it's gotten stale long time ago. Any objective tennis fan will see that draws vary per tournament, with each top player sometimes getting relatively easy draws and sometimes relatively tough.


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helterskelter

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helterskelter, Nov 1, 2013 

Funny that this thread is up this year, when Nadal's draws haven't been as easy as usual. He did actually get a difficult draw at both Roland Garros and Wimbledon, although he again got an easy draw at the US Open.
 In the past, it was definitely the case that Nadal consistently got easy draws, and Federer and Djokovic got hard ones. For several years, they were the top three players in the world by a distance, so the only thing that really mattered from the point of view of the draw was which ones had to play each other in the semi-finals.
 So, let's take a look:
 Wimbledon 2012 - Djokovic v Federer; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Roland Garros 2012 - Djokovic v Federer; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Australian Open 2012 - Djokovic v A. N. Other; Federer v Nadal
 US Open 2011 - Djokovic v Federer; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Wimbledon 2011 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Federer v Djokovic
 Roland Garros 2011 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Federer v Djokovic
 Australian Open 2011 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 US Open 2010 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Wimbledon 2010 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Roland Garros 2010 - Federer v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Nadal
 Australian Open 2010 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 US Open 2009 - Federer v Djokovic; Nadal v A. N. Other
 Wimbledon 2009 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Roland Garros 2009 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Australian Open 2009 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 US Open 2008 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Wimbledon 2008 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Roland Garros 2008 - Federer v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Nadal
 Australian Open 2008 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 In other words, in a 19-Slam stretch during which they were the top three players almost always (at the US Open 2009, Murray was seeded #2), Nadal only had to play one of the others in the semi-finals on three occasions, while Djokovic and Federer were drawn against each other on 16 occasions.
 Conclusion: Nadal has historically had a ridiculous number of easy draws in major championships.


#30
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lunch

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lunch, Nov 1, 2013 



Starfury said: ↑

Strawman. It's simple to look at the draw and compare the other QF seeds.
 Djokovic half: Del Potro, Federer, Wawrinka
 Nadal half: Ferrer, Berdych, Gasquet
 Now who's going to argue that Nadal's didn't get the the weaker player for each of the three opponents?

note the title of this thread: How does Nadal always get the easiest draws, TIME AFTER TIME?
 see: Shanghai Masters 2013.
 as a Nadal fan, i'm not going to cry over a difficult draw, as I know the pendulum has swung the other way many a time in the past. And vice versa.
 I hope the Djokovic and Federer fans on this forum would do the same.


#31
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chicagodude

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chicagodude, Nov 1, 2013 



helterskelter said: ↑

Funny that this thread is up this year, when Nadal's draws haven't been as easy as usual. He did actually get a difficult draw at both Roland Garros and Wimbledon, although he again got an easy draw at the US Open.
 In the past, it was definitely the case that Nadal consistently got easy draws, and Federer and Djokovic got hard ones. For several years, they were the top three players in the world by a distance, so the only thing that really mattered from the point of view of the draw was which ones had to play each other in the semi-finals.
 So, let's take a look:
 Wimbledon 2012 - Djokovic v Federer; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Roland Garros 2012 - Djokovic v Federer; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Australian Open 2012 - Djokovic v A. N. Other; Federer v Nadal
 US Open 2011 - Djokovic v Federer; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Wimbledon 2011 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Federer v Djokovic
 Roland Garros 2011 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Federer v Djokovic
 Australian Open 2011 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 US Open 2010 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Wimbledon 2010 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Roland Garros 2010 - Federer v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Nadal
 Australian Open 2010 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 US Open 2009 - Federer v Djokovic; Nadal v A. N. Other
 Wimbledon 2009 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Roland Garros 2009 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Australian Open 2009 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 US Open 2008 - Nadal v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Federer
 Wimbledon 2008 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 Roland Garros 2008 - Federer v A. N. Other; Djokovic v Nadal
 Australian Open 2008 - Federer v Djokovic; A. N. Other v Nadal
 In other words, in a 19-Slam stretch during which they were the top three players almost always (at the US Open 2009, Murray was seeded #2), Nadal only had to play one of the others in the semi-finals on three occasions, while Djokovic and Federer were drawn against each other on 16 occasions.
 Conclusion: Nadal has historically had a ridiculous number of easy draws in major championships.
Click to expand...
Conclusion: you've conveniently left Murray out as one of the top-4 players to make it look like Nadal had easy draws. Pretty much everybody talks about the big 4, but you only speak of a top 3, why is that?


#32
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Wim

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Wim, Nov 1, 2013 

Must be CIA.


#33
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Wim

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Wim, Nov 1, 2013 



chicagodude said: ↑

Conclusion: you've conveniently left Murray out as one of the top-4 players to make it look like Nadal had easy draws. Pretty much everybody talks about the big 4, but you only speak of a top 3, why is that?

You are so right.


#34
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Backspin1183

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Backspin1183, Nov 1, 2013 

You whiny kids also need to whine 'bout why it's always Nadal who gets to beat Djokovic and Federer more than 20 times each. Why always Nadal why!


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Steve0904
 
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Steve0904, Nov 1, 2013 



Wim said: ↑

You are so right.

Eh.... Not really. There was no big 4 for most of those slams because Murray was easier to beat. However, Djokovic never turned the corner until 2011 so it's a bit of a fallacy that Federer got tougher draws than Nadal. When Federer played Djokovic in slams before 2011 I almost always expected Federer to win.


#36
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chicagodude

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chicagodude, Nov 1, 2013 



Steve0904 said: ↑

Eh.... Not really. There was no big 4 for most of those slams because Murray was easier to beat. However, Djokovic never turned the corner until 2011 so it's a bit of a fallacy that Federer got tougher draws than Nadal. When Federer played Djokovic in slams before 2011 I almost always expected Federer to win.

Well, if you want to go that way: before 2011 there was Fed-Nadal, then just below that Murray-Djoko. In 2011 there was Djoko and Nadal, and right behind that Fed-Murray. In 2012 Murray turned a corner and you could pretty much speak of a top-4, finally. This year I would say it's top-3 Djoko/Nadal/Murray at AO and WM, and top-2 at the other 2.


#37
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helterskelter

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helterskelter, Nov 1, 2013 

Even before 2011, Djokovic was a tougher opponent than Murray pretty much all of the time.


#38
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helterskelter

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helterskelter, Nov 1, 2013 



Backspin1183 said: ↑

You whiny kids also need to whine 'bout why it's always Nadal who gets to beat Djokovic and Federer more than 20 times each. Why always Nadal why!

1. He plays them on surfaces that favor him
 2. He plays them when he's fresh and they're tired because they've just played each other for hours while he gets to play the likes of Youzhny


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TheF1Bob

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TheF1Bob, Nov 1, 2013 

Senior Toni would like a word with you.


#40
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Steve0904
 
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Steve0904, Nov 1, 2013 



chicagodude said: ↑

Well, if you want to go that way: before 2011 there was Fed-Nadal, then just below that Murray-Djoko. In 2011 there was Djoko and Nadal, and right behind that Fed-Murray. In 2012 Murray turned a corner and you could pretty much speak of a top-4, finally. This year I would say it's top-3 Djoko/Nadal/Murray at AO and WM, and top-2 at the other 2.

That's basically what I'm saying. There have actually been very few times when there was a legit "big 4."


#41
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chicagodude

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chicagodude, Nov 1, 2013 

Frankly, all these threads made by fans of one player to try to discount their opponents' achievements are getting very tiresome.
 Lucky draws all the time for one player? Total BS
 Weaker era for one player? Total BS
 And now some of you will probably respond with "You're wrong, if you look objectively, then....blablabla" and those responses are always from fans of one player or another.


#42
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chicagodude

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chicagodude, Nov 1, 2013 



Steve0904 said: ↑

That's basically what I'm saying. There have actually been very few times when there was a legit "big 4."

Yes, you could say that, thing is, just listing a big 3 as if it was a constant big-3 is biased too. It's very hard to judge draws on being easy/difficult, since it all depends on what surface it is, the form of the moment for each player, etc.
 Sure, the current tournament in Paris seems to have a more difficult draw for Djokovic (mainly comparing Ferrer to Delpo. Berdych-Fed almost equivalent, Gassquet-Wawrinka almost equivalent), but Wawrinka didn't have much in the way of Djoko, while for all we know Gasquet might play the match of his life.


#43
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helterskelter

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helterskelter, Nov 1, 2013 

Frankly, this refusal of Nadal fans to accept that he's been given more advantages than any top player in recent history and that he has as a result vastly overachieved are getting very tiresome.
 Now some of you will probably respond with "You're wrong, Nadal has changed his game, had difficult draws…blahblahblah" and accuse me of being a fan of either Federer or Djokovic. Neither is true.


#44
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Kenshin

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Kenshin, Nov 1, 2013 



helterskelter said: ↑

Frankly, this refusal of Nadal fans to accept that he's been given more advantages than any top player in recent history and that he has as a result vastly overachieved are getting very tiresome.
 Now some of you will probably respond with "You're wrong, Nadal has changed his game, had difficult draws…blahblahblah" and accuse me of being a fan of either Federer or Djokovic. Neither is true.

Every player is playing on an even playing field. There is NOTHING such as given more advantages than any top player in recent history. If you are a real tennis fan, you don't creat a post like this.


#45
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LazyNinja19

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LazyNinja19, Nov 1, 2013 

Wow! These Nole & Fed fans are such cry babies..
 "Boohooo my God got a tough draw...boo hoo :'( :'("
 Grow up guys! The draws are absolutely fair! Stop cribbing!
 Your idols don't cry over it, why do you?!


#46
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helterskelter

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helterskelter, Nov 1, 2013 



Kenshin said: ↑

Every player is playing on an even playing field. There is NOTHING such as given more advantages than any top player in recent history. If you are a real tennis fan, you don't creat a post like this.

Why do you presume to say who is a "real tennis fan" or not? (I've seen you say that before to other people).
 Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic have all benefitted from homogenized conditions and that has helped them wrack up more wins than top players of past generations. That much is pretty uncontroversial. It's my contention that Nadal has benefitted from this more than the other two. That's obviously more controversial, but I've been giving reasons for several posts now.


#47
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ruerooo

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ruerooo, Nov 1, 2013 



helterskelter said: ↑

Frankly, this refusal of Nadal fans to accept that he's been given more advantages than any top player in recent history and that he has as a result vastly overachieved are getting very tiresome.

Roger won pretty much everything from 2004-2007. Novak won pretty much every tournament in 2011.
 Have you forgotten? Did you not watch tennis back then? Are you cursed with long- or short-term memory problems, or a really short attention span?


helterskelter said: ↑

Now some of you will probably respond with "You're wrong, Nadal has changed his game, had difficult draws…blahblahblah" and accuse me of being a fan of either Federer or Djokovic. Neither is true.

I wouldn't "accuse" you of any of that, personally.
 I might accuse you of being a little clueless, though, maybe. Or possibly of having ingested too many interesting substances. Because ... :shock:


#48
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Kenshin

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Kenshin, Nov 1, 2013 



helterskelter said: ↑

Why do you presume to say who is a "real tennis fan" or not? (I've seen you say that before to other people).
 Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic have all benefitted from homogenized conditions and that has helped them wrack up more wins than top players of past generations. That much is pretty uncontroversial. It's my contention that Nadal has benefitted from this more than the other two. That's obviously more controversial, but I've been giving reasons for several posts now.

Like I said before there is nothing as such thing like benefitted from the other two or whatever. All players have to deal with the same condition that they have been given. In that regard they are on an even playing feild. To think otherwise and whine about it is just you being bias.


#49
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helterskelter

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helterskelter, Nov 1, 2013 



ruerooo said: ↑

Roger won pretty much everything from 2004-2007. Novak won pretty much every tournament in 2011.
 Have you forgotten? Did you not watch tennis back then? Are you cursed with long- or short-term memory problems, or a really short attention span?

 I wouldn't "accuse" you of any of that, personally.
 I might accuse you of being a little clueless, though, maybe. Or possibly of having ingested too many interesting substances. Because ... :shock:
Click to expand...
Ah, my memory is (almost) as good as ever it was, and I've followed tennis since 1986. I don't see how Federer and Djokovic's success is related to the question of whether Nadal has overachieved. It's certainly possible that Nadal's level of success is overachieving for his level of talent but wouldn't be overachieving for other players' level of talent. I personally believe that Nadal is the least talented 5+ Slam champion since Mats Wilander (by quite a distance). Feel free to disagree, of course.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/how-does-nadal-always-get-the-easiest-draws-time-after-time.481647/

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